Category: Dating and Relationships
In another topic Queen Lioness Liz says:
"Guys are lying cheating dogs, and will play
you. Okay, so I should have said, most! are, but I haven't seen anything that doesn't support this."
This got me to a responce and some museings which lead me off topic so I decided to post it in a different place.
Everyone knows that we are horny creatures by nature. That being said some guys do go into something wanting just sexual whatevers. It is of my opinion that if you're gonna do that you should tell the woman up front (but probably no guy would.) Its not like the women who want sex only would go and tell the guy straight out either... I'm just curious if everyone was more up front would this be a better approach? This way a guy doesn't think this woman wants more than sexual relationship and vysa versa. No one is confused nor thinks something is more than it is. Then the other party can decide weather or not they want to even bother with said person. Now saying that, not all of guys are interested in sex only. IT seems that guys are looked apon as wanting more sex than women. Which actually leads me to a question: Why is it that if a guy is only interested in sex he is an ass according to women? IF a woman is only interested in sex us guys do not seem to have a problem with it and actually find it hot? In other words, do guys find women who are are interested in sex as hot ware as women think guys who are the same way are complete asses? My guess is that since women are more emotional that they want a guy that is loving ware as some guys just want sex and to hell with love. Curious about your thoughts on this
John
john,
Myself being a lesbian, I can't really say as far as guys are concerned, but my views follow and I think they could be applied to either a homosexual relationship or a hederosexual one.
Is it wrong to only want sex?: no, not in my opinion, as long as both parties concerned know this and are consenting to the fact.
For example:
You're single and you go to a nightclub. Whilst at this nightclub, you start talking to someone you find atractive. You're drinking, they're drinking, and by the end of the night, you've decided to go home together. At this rate, you can surely expect, that noone cares who's democtratic or republican, and noone cares if you like peanutbutter and jelly more than ham and cheese. The plan has been quite obviously simple from the beginning for both of you. So you end up having sex, and wow, what a surprise, it was enjoyable but not the person you'd planned on spending the rest of your life with.
In this example, I don't think there is any need for explanations, as it's rather obvious, that you wouldn't expect to fall in love with someone over night. So then, when you went home together, you both knew, that it was for sexual purposes only.
The second example, however, is quite different, and I have just as strong an opinion of this example as I do the first:
You've been seeing this person for several months, and you've never done anything sexual--you both felt it was better to wait for "that right time" and finally, tonight, you guys have reached that, "right time."
I would expect that both persons involved would have more for each other than sexual desires.
I personally would never just go to the bar and bring someone home, so example 1, doesn't apply to me.
I'm sure there are those who would agree, and there are probably those that would disagree, but either way, whatever you choose for yourself, know that yes, there may be that in betweeen ground, where you have been dating, but aren't quite serious, so you don't know how the other person feels--don't stress, just ask.
How hard is it to say, "hey, I'm just curious, and feel I have the right to know. So do you want to have sex with me tonight becaure you care about me, or because you are horny and want to relieve some pressure?"
The question isn't bad, but if you ask it, you should be prepared to have the honest answer.
Is it hot for a person to want only sex.
Personally, no.
Do I think it's wrong for someone else to think that it's hot? No.
Everyone has their own turn ons, and if all of our turn ons were the same, it'd be a boring world, and noone's sex life would ever be interesting.
But it's not a boring world, because we have different preferences, and I think that's the turn on itself--getting to know what it is my partner enjoys.
Now, you've heard all you're gonna hear from me on this topic for now.
Amber
the "all men are dogs" was directed at players! not thoes in a commited relationship. I think the point I was trying to get across, but probablly failed to was, that more offern than not, that's waht guys are usually looking for, specially thoes on the internet. some may be in relationships, but feel the need to play around on their partners, so they're the players I was talking about. Plus, if you read the quote in John's post, it said that I said most! are. It all depends on the guy himself if he is or not. As for meeting someone in a club and going home to just have a 1 night stand with them, well, that's just not an option for me at all, cause I'd never do it. Women are usually called sluts or hores if they're just after sex. I don't kno why, but we just are. where as men, are looked on as some kind of stud or something. Why is that?
Oooooooo, Peanut butter and jelly. Was there something said after that? grin
Liz states in part:
"Women are usually called sluts or hores if they're just after sex, where as men, are looked on as some kind of stud or something. Why is that?"
Yes, that's what I wantedd to know.... Tha'ts more or less what I was asking in the first post. Though I was on a bit of a role and somehow the whole "Is it okay to have sex for sex only" came up in my rambelings.
I'm one of these guys that would be tempted to have sex for sex, but doubt I'd go through wiht it. I just don't think its in my nature. Beliefs, and just how I am as a person would cause me to really regret that option if it did happen. If I was horny and needed relief that's when the temtation would come up. But deep inside of my very being I'd like to think that my big head would win out on that one. I know how my mind and heart operate and somehow emotionless sex just seems wrong to me.
John
Good questions John. Of course, you put the three letter word in the title that trigger's something in our brains that says: you-must-read-this-topic. Maybe it's only us sexually repressed people of another age that get that trigger.
Anyway, it reminds me of a Harry Chapin song called, "they call her easy" that, I think, addresses your questions.
It can be found at the following link (if I can get this to work):
http://www.harrychapin.com/music/easy.shtml
Bob
John, that's exactly what I want to kno as well. It's refreshing to kno that a man thinks that it seems wrong, and probablly wouldn't do it anyway, but, there are some men who would just have sex to just have sex.
Smiles to liz. Okay vergin John here.... I wanna be damn sure before I do. Cause once its gone, its gone. Can't get it back ya know. There is something to be said for cherishing and valueing your lover.
I'm gonna add that no guy is probably going to come on here and explain why some men are like that. Then again. Dad always says: If you knew why people did the things they did, you'd be just like them. There is truth to this statement.
I think part of it have to do with talking to your buddies about your conquests, how many you banged (even if it is waaaay over egzagerated),, how deep each pussy went, the size of the boobies, etc. Its a stud thing. I think of it as more of a mocho thing. My opinion is "who cares?" Women (at least the ones I know), do not respect the men who give of it freely. It is of my opinion (shown by actions), that women will respect a guy that doesn't do the "feel good" thing.
Now I'm going to address the women being whores thing. I think that in the US that guys are expected to be sexual constently. Women are expected to wait. Our country has a bit more respect for guys who do sex for sex as apposed to zero respect for women who do the same thing. I'm not sure why this is. As a side note guys who do have sex with women who are only interested in sex go and tell there buddies about what a hot lay these women are. That's about the end of the convo right there. The buddies then wanna start having turns at "banging her too." I think this is how women start to get labeled as whores.
I'm curious though what do these women say about the men they lay? How does that conversation go?
I could be waaay off base with this, but this is how my thought process goes.
John
John
I meant to respond when John made his original post but somehow managed to keep neglecting to do so. The thread also seems to have developed into two questions so I'll address them both.
Maybe it's my age, the people I associate with or something about my society, but I don't know anybody who looks on men with admiration or women with disdain for going out and sleeping with lots of people. If that's what they do, it doesn't make them a better or worse person; maybe there's a deep-rooted insecurity or maybe - just maybe - they simply like having lots and lots of varied sex; that's for them to deal with. There's nothing wrong with one-night stands (as long as everybody's protected) and lets face it, you have pretty unrealistic expectations (woman or man) if you think somebody's going to pick you up in a club or bar, take you home for sex then want to start a committed relationship with you the next day. It *might* happen but it's not likely. I wouldn't have a one-night stand in this way, but that's more about my level of confidence and ability to read body language in those environments. But I digress ...
On to what I believe was the original question. There's nothing wrong with a relationship based solely or mainly on sex. I've done it and have no problem admitting it. I'm not bragging or regretting either way, but (as you'll see from my posts on virginity and sex before marriage) I simply don't believe sex to be this delicate jewel that should be placed on a plinth; it's something to be had, nurtured and developed just like any other aspect of our personality.
You might be asking how I can do it. Well, just like I've known people I can go for a drink with after work and people who I can confide anything in, I've also known women with whom I've had a relationship based on mature and healthy sex. And yes, it *is* a relationship. It's not something that everybody can do (or wants to do) maybe because it involves a level of communication and honesty not usually found so early on in relationships. As in other types of relationship the key is talking. If not, one person might simply assume that the other is in for a sex-only relationship; one person might go into it hoping or believing that the other will develop more feelings; the couple may enjoy it for a while then decide they've got whatever they want from it and it ends naturally. I've been in all these situations but at the times when I've wanted such a relationship, the best ones have been those where we talked honestly. I don't mean saying something like "You know this is just about sex, right?" as soon as you've cum, but you have the opportunity to talk about sex (amongst other things) at times other than when having sex; this also makes it different from a booty-call.
I hope I've explained myself without boring you to tears; if not post again and I'll clear anything up. Or slag me for being crass, it makes no odds to me!
By the way John, you used the term "emotionless sex"; it's never a good idea to have emotionless sex! There *are* emotions associated with a booty-call or a sex-based relationship, they're just different ones from what you're thinking of.
wow Dusty, just wow! that's alright if the two people involved kno that it's just based on just sex, but what about thoes that just want a quick roll in the hay? What do you say on thoes people, oh master of all things sexual? lol jk. no, really. Oh and John, *smiles* just wow to you to, for putting yourself out their like that.
Dusty said in part:
By the way John, you used the term "emotionless sex"; it's never a good idea to have emotionless sex! There *are* emotions associated with a booty-call
or a sex-based relationship, they're just different ones from what you're thinking of.
How do you figgure? What kinds of emotions are involved in a sexual only interest? Short of being horny and needing relief what else is there?
To my way of figgureing if you are in a strong relationship and know its the right thing then there are gonna be a lot of emotions. THe one I'd like to think would be most prevvelent would be love, a wanting to be with the person no matter what, etc.
In a sexual only relationship, you have the woman over to your pad, you guys eat a lazy dinner then screw then she goes home the next day. Then a week later when you guys are both in the need for some lovin' again you go through the same process. Ware is the emotions in that? Unless you mean that the emotions would be horny and "oh how hot!" emotions?
John
he probablly does mean thoes emotions. If he ever posts again, we'll find out.
He will. It may just take a week. LOL
Wow. This topic has definitely evolved into something...
I gave my opinion, and when I did, I didn't mean it to look as if I hate men or think they are the most evil creatures god put on the face of this earth.
All I meant by addressing my lesbianism, was that I wouldn't know, because I'm not atracted to them.
As far as how I feel about women being thought of as whores and sluts, because they have sex just to have it, I wouldn't ever call anyone names.
I know I personally wouldn't just put my body out there, but that's because I feel that it is a self-respect issue.
Others may feel that it is perfectly natural, and that they aren't doing anything immoral or wrong if they do it.
I don't agree though, about there being emotions involved in a sex-only relationship, because in this kind of relationship, you don't have to have inteligent conversations, you don't have to have anything at all in common--except the things you like/dislike, in bed.
Now, if that's not shallow, I don't know what is.
Shutting up now,
Amber
Liz I believe I addressed the "roll in the hay" issue in my previous post.
What kind of emotions are associated in a sex-only relationship? Fulfilment, exhilaration, anticipation, tenderness, take your pick. Just because it isn't "deep" and "committed" doesn't mean that there are no emotions attached. And conversely, just because you know they are "the right one" that doesn't mean that there will automatically be all those emotions associated. How about those relationships where everything is fine but the sex is rubbish? And why is the sex unsatisfying? Probably because the couple can't talk honestly. No relationship is perfect, that's true, but there's nothing wrong with just taking the elements you want (be it companionship, financial security, sex) and focussing on those; it happens all the time in the real world John.
Renee87 I don't think your sexuality is an issue in this question because it is about views on a sex-only relationship and that is something which I'm sure goes on in all flavours of sexuality. It's good though, that you wouldn't call anyone names (like shallow)! On the whole I try not to associate with anybody with whom I can't have an intelligent conversation at least some of the time (whether they are friends, lovers or anything else) but if you are able to convey your sexual desires, thoughts and preferences *without* intelligent discussion, you're a better person than I! On a final note, if you haven't (or wouldn't) engage in a sex-only relationship, how do you know there are no emotions involved?
Dusty sir, you have a point there.
I just don't see myself engaging in a sex-only relationship to find out what emotions there may be or not be as the case may be.
I just think that being in a relationship means that there are much more deepre emotions then there would be in a sex-only relationship.
I think Amber's point was that though being someone's lover can have intelagent conversations, etc, that there wouldn't need to be. Maybe I'm lookin at this black and white but I see a sexual only relationship is being more or less compatibal in bed. You and your partner likeing what goes on sexually. Short of that no other emotions are involved are they? What I'm saying is that in a sexual-only relationship, just those emotions asosheated with sex would be prevvelent right?
Or am I wrong again?
John
Quoting you... "Its not like the women who want sex only would go and tell the guy straight out either.." I always did. I mean, I was friends with the guys I was with before my boyfriend, but we knew when we got in the bedroom that it was just for fun, no strings attached, no emotions. The only rule was that we had to keep everything safe, so there was always protection. Now that I am in a full relationship, I obviously know the difference, but knowing it doesn't mean that if, gods forbid, we break up, I wouldn't play the field again and yes, I'd do it the same way.
I hold to the opinion that as long as all parties are honest and in agreement about what's going on, and the type of encounter/relationship they want, then it's all good.
For myself I don't think I could ever do the whole "one night stand" thing as it were, just because of the type of person I am, and my personal view of relationships. That being said, I've never really encountered the situation either, so who knows.
I completely agree with Dusty's posts. Personally, I would not take a girl home, with whom I could not have an intelligent conversation, or with whom there was no possibility of a friendship. If we were to have a sex based relationship, I would hope that we could also count on each other as friends. This also goes for one night stands. I think that made sense...
Here's How I believe the women convo on there sexual partners goes: Crystal, "Monica, you know that cute guy, Mike, from the dance club?" Monica: "Yes, Crystal, Let me guess. The look on your face tells me he couldn't reach far."
Hmmm. thinking about this a lot now. I'm not sure the "men as studs" thing and "women as whores: business is so prevalent these days.
but one thing on my mind is the age-relatedness of some of the responses. , If you're young there are just so many more opportunities for that one-night stand and all other variations on that theme. I certainly "played around" when I was younger and I have to agree with the emotional bit - I always had some sort of emotional conection to women I was having sex with. I think it's sort of funny that it seems more natural to have an emotional connection to someone you have good intellectual conversations with. I'm saying this as someone whose most meningful relationships *were* with women who were friends first. But I still find it odd to contemplate. Because emotions are *not* an intellectual thing. Emotions are what you experience when you drop out of that intellectual mode. They are a very physical experience and are often what we'd call "irrational".
but, as to the age factor, well, I'm pretty age-obsessed these days, suddenly realizing how old I got when I wasn't paying attention, but I was sort of surprised to find out that other lesbians my age are having out-loud conversations about the topics that were mainly bumping around in my head - what *do* you do when you find yourself single, no prospects for the long-term relationship on the horizon, and you still want sex. and one of the answers is the sex-only relationship. You meet someone you're attracted to but don't make the intellectual or "I want to spend my life with you" connection. Or you are just too busy taking care of kids or parents or both and still trying to earn a living to do a lot of looking. And it's easier to find someone if you aren't looking for that complete, make a life together relationship, So you make an arrangement. Once or twice a week , get together for a few hours. I had to laugh at myself for how much this somewhat obvious solution startled me. Not that people haven't been doing it for centuries.
I think when you're younger it seems, like all possibilities are out there and, well, for some of us who thought we wanted a life partner it just didn't happen. For me it was finding that person and having her die under the wheels of a bus. for others it's thinking you have it and it ends in divorce, and some people just dont' have it happen at all. and some find a life partner when they're over age 50 and it does work out. Which gives me hope. but still, knowing that if I do meet someone I make that conection with, chances are good our lives and commitments are such that it wouldn't be the same kind of relationship I'd once hoped for.
I honestly didn't read every post in this topic but would still like to put in my two scents on what i did read. I think the basis behind the thing with women is that they do get more emotionally attached and there fore if she isn't an emotional type she is seen as a slutt. For example I was in a relationship back at a point that was fwb. We both knew it would go no further, but I started developing feelings and that needed to end because I wanted more than the relationship was. I personally couldn't be that type of person. Or not based on my expieriences. Women's chemesty and minds are different, and if a woman can't admnit that she is lying to herself, but do I think it's right we're called slutts? No I don't. I think it is good to be open yes, but don't be surprised if turms are broken and one develops feelings.
I agree that the men as studs and women as whores mentality is quickly falling by the wayside, especially here in the US, and I think that's as it should be. I believe that if two consenting adults decide to engage in a relationship which is solely based on sex, as long as both parties are safe and honest, where's the harm? I personally wouldn't have sex with someone with whom I wasn't reasonably certain I would develop some sort of relationship, but I think I could definitely have sex with someone with whom I wasn't madly in love either. If loving emotions are meant to develop, they will, and if not, fun was had by all, so it's all good. I would also never look down on anyone for choosing to pursue purely sexual relationships. Each person's life is his or her own to live as he or she chooses, and as long as no one gets hurt, there's no harm in pursuing whatever relationship means the most to an individual.
Hmmm, this is interesting. I've been on many phone chatlines, where most of us were looking for some quick sexual satisfaction. That's why most of us called the line, and that's what most of us expected. I didn't know them, and they didn't know me. I was cool with that. Physically though, that's a whole different story. I don't think I could do it.
God, relationships are hard work. Fuck it, stay single and celebate, or however you spell that word. Less hassle. We humans always over complicate things.
Here here! Sounds like a winnner to me.
So I have had just strictly a sexual relationship and also a more deep and intimate relationship if you will and I will say this. I personally could never have sex with someone unless they were also a friend as I also would like to talk to them about other things besides sex. I'm not the kind of person to just go to a bar, talk to a guy and go home with him. hell, I hate going to bars by myself in general. I don't know how anyone can go by themselves. But that's besides the point and for another topic. As for the women being whores thing, I do agree that it is pretty fucked up that the more sex men have with random women the more "cooler they are", but yet the more sex a woman has the more she is labeled a whore or a slut. But yet, at the same time, if a woman chooses not to have sex at all till she is married then she is labeled a prude or something similar. It just seems guys can never be satisfied with women and I see more and more guys thinking they deserve the perfect model. Perhaps it's my bitter values on men and I'm really super sorry if I offended anyone but I personally have not had very many good experiences with men, therefore you could understand why I may be a little jaded.
Anyway, hopefully that made some sort of sense.
Jess
yah, have to agree with u John, that's a bad starieotype, were all animals it's natural to be horny, as long as your straight up with me about it i wouldn't think any less of that certain person.and poster 27, I totally agree with you, I think someone who chewses to wait, there's nothing rong with that, that sounds a hole lot better then someone sleeping with random people settling for the quick fix. that's just how I feel, please don't take offense anyone. great topic.
I would never dream of just being in a relationship for sex. I also think that it's other people's business if just for sex relationships is all they can manage; however, I totally disapprove of people who play inocent and acts as if they want a real relationship when in actual fact they just want sex. Why not be upfront about it? Why act when you might actually lose a really good friend in the process?
I am friends with people who does the one night stand thing; they know how I feel about it but, not once have they tried to make me get involved in that bit of their lives. And those who tried to use me? I just scrapped them from my little book of friends. I don't have time for people like that and I wish that they'd get what they've been giving. it's only reasonable.
And all of this is just my view.
Nothing wrong with just a sexual thing, in my opinion.
There's nothing wrong with that. But me? I couldn't go for that.
Looking back, I have had a couple of sexual encounters where both of us were just horney and needed to get off. Usually, if I've become really close friends with someone, I'm afraid to bring up the sexual aspect of it for fear of losing the friend. Maybe I just fear rejection, but in those cases, I know I'd rather have the friendship than nothing at all, so...
I think I have to agree with Jess on this one:
I personally wouldn't do it, But to each his or her own. I've had that kind of relationship before, but as it was, I actually was in love with the guy, and so even though I had a good idea that was what it was for him, I still was kind of hoping he'd develop feelings through it. I dont necessarily think there's anything "wrong" with it, but I do think those relationships can be hard, especially if feelings start to develop. But like was mentioned before, if both parties consent, well, that's their lives. I dont think it's the best thing in the world, but everyone has control over how they want to live their life, and with whom, so well, what can I say! I personally wouldn't think too highly of guys or girls who go around doing it, but I personally wouldn't want to, nor would I want to have sex with someone I dont know, nor with a friend, only with someone I could see myself being with. But everyone has their own preferences, Now going to watch my novela.
First I have one disagreement with the first poster. I do not think we are evil by nature. Really we aren't either, if anything, we are good. You don't see a baby doing bad, so we are good, unless we are taught to be bad. However, I do think so, I think truth is the only way out. I think there is no other way out of things.
I keep coming back to this board and rereading it, and more and more memories pop in to my head. When I was a teenager, I was pretty much a slut. I went to a school for the blind, and several of us horney teenage boys would get together and either suck or jerk each other off, just for the relief and exploration. Back then, I didn't have a problem with it. We all knew each other pretty well, and were friends, so it wasn't as though we were strangers. As I've aged though, I find myself wanting something more than just raw sex, but there are those times when I get so horney that I'd probably be tempted to do some casual play still, which is why I try to keep myself out of temptation's way.
to allisonfm, bravo. You've summed up everything beautifully, especially about the two conscenting adults. Also, I'm glad to see that ridiculous mentality of stud/hore is disappearing. The thing that scares me is the lack of concern that many people have these days for stds, stis and pregnancy. Sex is wonderful, and it should be enjoyed. But there are risks that must be taken into account. I could be horny as all hell but I'm not gonna fuck a random guy whom I just met, even if he's sexy and the age I want. Another problem I have is with people cheating on one another. If you've got interests for someone else or want to try new things etc, you should be decent enough to talk it out with your partner before hand. I personally only go with men who are single, widdowed, divorced or truly separated from their wives (like five years or more), and that last is a rare exception. I don't like drama and messing up relationships.
I'm still with my bf but now in an open relationship. He's not interested in other women but says I'm young and should enjoy myself and he won't hold me back from that. I haven't been with anyone else yet, but I did meet at least two guys who I wanna try. They both know that I'm not seeking a relationship cause I'm already in one and they knew from the start that I was interested in sex. But we also took the time to get to know one another. I think this is the best of both worlds. I have a man whom I love, but rarely get to see, and some safe fun on the side.
I notice that someone brought up cyber and physical sex and noted their differences. The thing that I don't like is when a married or attached person does it and doesn't consider it cheating. I can never wrap my head around how cyber or phone sex doesn't equal cheating. Sex is sex, no matter how you look at it, unless it's porn and the guy's just masturbating.